In Spring 2000, US Magazine "Show Music" spoke to Barbara about her career and her role in 'Spend Spend Spend'. The interview is by Piers Ford.
BIG SPENDER : BARBARA DICKSON
She has carved out a unique niche in British musical theatre. On paper, her contribution looks modest enough: an early introduction singing Lennon and McCartney songs for Willy Russell's 1974 piece about the Beatles (John, Paul, George, Ringo and Bert); two starring roles in the West End separated by some 16 years; associations with a couple of concept musical albums; and the occasional provincial tour.
For Barbara Dickson, it's hardly an overcrowded resume. Rather, it's a useful sideline to a long and successful career as a recording and concert artist, and some well-received appearances in television drama.
But consider this: those two concept albums happened to be Evita and Chess, both released well ahead of their first stage productions to a public hungry for new work by some the world's finest writing talent. And the two starring roles were Mrs. Johnstone in Russell's searing 1983 musical Blood Brothers, and now her Olivier Award-winning turn as Viv Nicholson in Spend, Spend, Spend, which opened to critical
acclaim last fall and has already received an Evening Standard Award for Best Musical.
If Britain really does have its own homegrown tradition in the musical genre, these two shows surely represent its pinnacle. Morality tales rooted in folk history, their edgy, often heartbreaking scores and books that deal unflinchingly with the deeds and dilemmas of the protagonists, have proved an important
alternative to some of the more overwhelming elements of standard modem musical fare for London audiences. And in both cases, Barbara Dickson has been a key element in their success.
"I feel so proud to have been in Blood Brothers, because it was written in Britain and it's so specifically about a British subject," she says. "I feel the same way about Spend, Spend, Spend, which is also specifically British and about a British subject.
"I always say that I'm more Brecht than Broadway. Although I've never been in Brecht, I do feel that my ability, which is slightly gloomy, has got more to offer in this kind of show than in a big song and dance piece. I couldn't do that at all. I don't think 1 could offer that sort of show much, and I don't think it could offer me much. I'd love to be in something like Sweeney Todd, because it's so gothic and weird, but I'm not a 'musicals' artist in the true sense of the word. I love women in aprons and pinnies, slightly vulgar things, sex and laughs and big stories. That's what I'm into, really. I just feel that kind of material speaks
to me."
This aptitude for such a specific kind of role could have its roots in her upbringing. Dickson was bom in Dunfermline, Scotland, in 1947, into a very respectable working class family that always encouraged her to pursue her musical talents. "Because I was always involved in folk music, which is very earthy, very interesting and tells real stories about birth, life and death, my natural inclination is toward stories that have really important issues: morality tales, that kind of tiling," she says.
The description certainly suits Blood Brothers, which has become an enduring success and, in spite of (or perhaps because of) its particular British-ness, even managed to negotiate a tricky Broadway start to
become a hit on both sides of the Atlantic. It remains to be seen whether a similar future awaits Spend, Spend, Spend, written by Justin Greene and Steve Brown.
Spend, Spend, Spend is the story of Viv Nicholson, a woman who captured Britain's popular imagination in 1961 when she won a fortune on the football pools. Asked what she would do with the money, she uttered the legendary quote that forms the tide of the show. She proceeded to do just that in a life that has since endured almost every conceivable tragedy, including widowhood, bankruptcy and alcoholism. A woman who has been a British tabloid fodder for years, the real Viv Nicholson occupies a twin role as an example of the wages of sin and extravagance, yet is also considered a kind of folk heroine. It's a
potent tale.
In the show, Dickson plays the older Viv, looking back on her life and coming to terms with herself as a survivor. The gritty, fibrous material and songs that have been hailed as the first "standards" to emerge
from a British musical in years, gripped her from I the moment she first read it.
"I felt it was the best thing I'd come across since Blood Brothers," she says. "It really speaks to me, which is important for an artist. I always feel that if you're not moved when you read something, there isn't
much point in doing it. She is a fascinating character, and I think it's because of the subject matter. She was a poor woman who won money that they spent like water, and then her husband died. They just went
headlong at it.
"And there is the wages of sin aspect. Everybody said, 'Well, if you behave like that, what would you expect to happen in the end?' And she was deeply disliked, not only in her own community after she'd won, but also in the middle class area where she went to live. A lot of Americans reading this might ask how that could be. After all, she'd suddenly become successful. But we British have this marvellous way of treating success almost like a terminal illness, and we think there's something dishonest about winning money. 'Why did they win, and not us?' we ask. In fact, the opening song in Spend, Spend, Spend says, 'If only, if only, if only I could win, everything would be all right.' Well, it's not as simple as that. It might be all right. But then again, look what happened to Vivien."
Barbara Dickson is noted for the insight she brings to her roles, which makes her so convincing as these everywoman characters she so enjoys playing. She says she isn't anything like Viv Nicholson, although she understands the woman behind the story.
"To some extent, the same was true of Mrs. Johnstone. I would not give my children away, but I can understand what made her do what she did. And the strangest thing is that in spite of this terrible act, the
audience loves her because they understand what she's about. They never judge her at all harshly. And at the end of the day, although the young Viv in Spend, Spend, Spend is a brash, stupid character hurtling towards disaster, the audience doesn't judge her harshly, either. That's clever writing."
Dickson applauds the decision to have the character played by both a younger and an older actress. "I've tried to play her in a way which gives her the benefit of the doubt, as I think the writers want," she says. "And I suppose I was cast because they think I have a certain humanity and vulnerability, based on the work that I've done in the past, that they want from the older Viv."
According to Dickson, the songs are among the most beautiful she's encountered, particularly "The Scars of Love." "When I was learning it, it took me ages to get through it without really having to hang on
to control myself. I just found the writing was so wonderful," she remembers. "The director, Jeremy Sams, said to me: 'Hang on to your consonants by the skin of your teeth if you're going to cry, and you'll be all right!'
"The big song in Act II is "Who's Going to Love Me?" I asked Steve Brown how he thought of the idea of a woman looking for an eyelash on a pillow after somebody's died, or a hair just to remember them. He
said, 'I didn't dream that up, Barbara. Vivien told me that herself.' So the source material was very good, but the way it's used is marvellous. It has great heart and soul."
To hear what she means, anyone unable to make the trip to London must wait for the forthcoming cast album, still in the very early stages of preparation at the time of writing. Playing a role based on someone who is still very much alive can be a delicate matter. Nicholson herself has been closely involved as an advisor to the writers of Spend, Spend, Spend and famously took a bow with the cast on opening night, flashing her knickers to the audience almost as a salute to her devil-may-care younger self.
"I'm never tactless or thoughtless about Vivien's position because she is a live person and she has her own sensibilities," says Dickson. "I also take into account that, for her, it might be quite difficult watching two actresses mucking about on stage, being her.I think it must be quite harrowing. She did say that at one point, and I'm sure she's been very brave and not said it as often as she's felt it. I admire her very much and I salute her for being alive and well after the life she led in the early part, having got to her late 30s and massively abused herself. She's OK now, fine and surviving, and everybody admires that, I'm sure."
The astonishing thing about Barbara Dickson is that she has never had any formal training as an actor. In fact, she had to be cajoled into taking on the role of Mrs. Johnstone in Blood Brothers and confesses
that at the time, her own reserves of self-confidence were hardly up to the task.
"There wasn't a theatre in the town where I grew up, only a concert hall and folk clubs," she recalls. "Actually, I first met actors in 1974 when I went to the Everyman Theatre in Liverpool to take part in John,
Paul, George, Ringo and Bert. I was a completely unknown folk singer, but Willy Russell was a friend of mine who loved my voice and knew my work. The company took a bit of convincing to begin with, but
when I started singing, they were fine."
