The following interview dates from 1988 - Barbara is speaking to Mike Dawney of "Music & Musicians" magazine.
BARBARA DICKSON, ON TOUR
In the 1950's, there were TV shows in which participants judged new pop songs, according to criteria which included marks for "sincerity". Today, if there were marks for sincerity, Barbara Dickson would be awarded 100%.
Barbara is a breath of fresh air in the superficial, glitzy showbusiness world, so triumphantly sent up by Dame Edna Everage.
In 1987, Barbara had a hectic British tour, though she enjoys touring. I am to meet her at the hi-tech Bournemouth International Centre, where nearly 4000 people come to her concert. I arrive early. A keyboard player is warming up with some Debussy. After I am checked by Security, Barbara welcomes me in her luxury dressing room, like a friendly relative before a party. I give Barbara Dickson a copy of "Music & Musicians", and she thanks me warmly, "That's very kind - something nice to read on tour."
Champagne is served, her only concession to stardom.
Barbara began as a folk singer. She had her first big success as Mrs Johnstone in the musical "John Paul George Ringo...& Bert" in 1973 (sic); and in 1977 made her debut at the London Palladium with David Essex, later appearing with the Two Ronnies on TV, and at Ronnie Scott's jazz club. Barbara had five hit singles between 1976 and 1980 - "Answer Me", a remake of a 1953 number one by Frank Whitfield and Frankie Laine, and "Another Suitcase In Another Hall", from the original "Evita" album. Barbara switched from RSO to Epic Records and had hits with "Caravan Song" from the film "Caravans", "January February" and "In The Night". Of her ten albums, three have been in the top ten, "The Barbara Dickson Album", "All For A Song" and "Gold". In 1983 her role in the musical "Blood Brothers" earned her the Society of West End Theatres award for best actress. In 1985, "I Know Him So Well", with Elaine Paige from "Chess" became a number one hit.
As a child, Barbara had piano lessons from a very good teacher, but "just scraped through Grade 4!" "It was never suggested to me that music was emotional." Barbara "loves classical music". Aged 12, she taught herself the guitar, but "wouldn't want Colm (her son) to take music lessons, unless he really did want to be another Ashkenazy." Barbara grew up in the "fifties and sixties with the Shadows and Everley Brothers. She went on to folk music at the age of 17, because of the 1960's folk revival, due to Bob Dylan. She had to learn folk music. Though a Scot, she wasn't one who "learned songs at my granny's knee," but from books, and Pete Seegar, more than any Scots singer. "American folk music was a great influence at that time." Barbara was a folk singer for ten years, and finds it easy to sing "The Skye Boat Song" and "MacCrimmon's Lament". She greatly adores Martin McCarthy. Barbara "has even got Oliver (Cookson, her husband whom she met on "Blood Brothers") interested in folk music."
As a songwriter, Barbara collaborates with Charlie Dore, a girl, primarily a songwriter and secondly a performer. "W can't wait for inspiration, so we meet Tuesday 2 p.m. and thrash out bits of tunes on the piano. Like the classic story of Paul McCartney's 'scrambled egg' (Barbara amusingly sings 'scrambled egg') becoming "Yesterday", we sing odd words, then come up with the final lyrics." Barbara finds it inspirational to work with Charlie, "because we think up intelligent things to say." A new song, "Precious Cargo", is about nuclear waste. "Many people would say 'what a terrible subject', but it is a strange, spooky and allegorical song, which took a long time to write."
Barbara's new album "After Dark" she regards as "a really good cross-section of what I'm about: it's not false." She had a live concept album made years ago, of which she had very little control and which did not represent her very well. "After Dark" has songs by Sting, whom she regards as "one of the best songwriters today. A strong-minded record producer can give you hit records, but mould you into something which he thinks is a good idea."
Asked about forays into other types of song, Barbara mentioned that she found "Che Fero" (from Gluck's "Orpheus" on London Weekend TV) very difficult. Barbara thinks Kathleen Kerrier's is the definitive performance. Barbara at first tried to make "Che Fero" her own, but found, three-quarters of the way through, that "it couldn't be done, it's such a different style." Barbara moves easily between folk, popular and jazz, but finds classical music "an entirely different thing." On TV she also sang Falla's "Lullaby" in Spanish. But she "does not have the Janet Baker voice:" and she "could not possibly sing Wagner!" Barbara feels some things work, eg "Carmen Jones", and the updated Gilbert and Sullivan "Pirates of Penzance", but could not sing Mabel, going to a top D flat, as she is a natural mezzo.
Asked about standards of the thirties (she recorded "As Time Goes By" and "Stardust"), she says "'As Time Goes By' has a real magic! I can really sell a song like that - it almost sings itself."
Barbara has also sung duets with Johnny Mathis ("We Were Never Really Out Of Love") as well as Elaine Paige. Barbara enjoyed having a hit record with Elaine Paige, "a very, very nice woman, very experienced, very professional", travelling to promote the record on German and Belgian TV. Barbara's band is entirely male. "In ten years as a travelling artist, headlining concerts, I've never had the chance of female band members. There are very few girl instrumentalists around." Barbara's male musicians, Ian Lynn, Pete Zorn and Andy Brown back Barbara in an a capella song, unusual in the pop scene.
Asked about the theatre and films, she says she "would not want to return to the theatre, as Mrs Johnstone in "Blood Brothers" was for me the definitive woman's part in a musical." She would not want to be in another musical, unless it provided an equally strong part. But she "would love to do a feature film, but no one has ever asked me!" She has considerable TV experience, including a new series, "travelling round, looking at scenery and talking to people". Her only unfulfilled professional ambition, she says humourously, is "to make a feature film with Steven Spielberg!" But she would like to have another number one hit, and to make an album with Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees, whom Barbara admires. Most of her ambitions are on a personal level eg. to live peacefully in the country (she has lived in London since 1974).
It's interesting to compare an artist's live performance with her records. Her band wear suits, Barbara in black, the lights are not gimmicky: she comes over like the girl next door; a sisterly image. In folk songs such as "Skye Boat Song" and "MacCrimmon's Lament" she is at her best, a rivetting voice, plangent and triumphant. Much of the material is new. A few hard, heavy rock numbers do not suit her. She introduces songs with gentle humour: "No Milk Today" is a sardonic milkman's lament. We learn from "Precious Cargo" that the Irish Sea, where waste is dumped, is "the world's most radioactive sea". Even Barbara's brilliantly produced programme books give you the feeling you "know her so well." The 1986 had her own wedding photos. The 1987 has her manager's wedding photos: she sang Vaughan Williams' evocative "Linden Lea" at Bernard Theobald's wedding at Winchester Cathedral. We are sharing a friend's photo album.
When previously in interview, I compared her with Edith Piaf, in the type of heart-rending, plaintive song such as "I Don't Believe In Miracles", Barbara felt this to be "a huge, huge compliment". Barbara asserts that Edith Piaf and Judy Garland "really communicated to people. People felt that they really knew them. It's lovely," Barbara says, "having been in many an audience myself, to take away a piece of somebody at the end of the night. My husband says that the only time he ever felt like that was when he went to hear James Taylor, who made him feel he knew him well." Barbara tries to make an audience feel her act "was good, strong stuff - to make them feel 'Yes, we like her, she's OK!' And that's all I can hope to achieve."
